Colour Neutrality Part 2 (Experiment + Q&A)

hey feliks, im a sub 20 cuber and i want to get to sub-15, i use one look pll and two look oll, what should i do next to get ty goal, learn the 57 oll's, switch to roux or learn more f2l tricks. i really need advice as i have become a little stagnant since the past 1 month, will color neutrality help?

thoughts on CN with Yau?

Hi Felix,I'm a big fan by the way,I've been CN for around 5 months and wondered if others use a method that I still do now.

  When I've chosen the cross colour, I say in my thoughts that colour, so say I choose orange as my cross I make an effort in my mind to say Orange,then repeat whilst inspecting. There's nothing worse than forgetting the cross colour whilst doing the cross, it really adds lots of time. I know you can just look at the top centre to remember which cross you have chosen whilst solving if you forget but that also adds time be it only a fraction of s second.

Since I used this method whilst learning CN and still do I wondered what ,if any,method you use to not forget cross colour?

Hey Feliks, how to improve fast at cross and f2l in colour neutral? And last layer?

To add on to Connor Liu, wat about CN on YAU 5? 

Hey Feliks,

I started out color neutral, and thus have never had experience switching, what is it like switching from one colour to six?

Hey Feliks,

Any update on when or if you'll be uploading OH OLL & PLL execution and fingertricks?

Mahor - Marginally. You'll find that solve efficiency, knowing OLL & other techniques will give you more immediate improvement. Learning CN will not really help to immediately lower your times.

Connor & Isaac - It's definitely good to do, but the general consensus is that it's not as advantageous as CN on 3x3 and smaller puzzles. Also, if you're starting with white/yellow centers, you're already effectively dual CN, which is pretty decent. Also, the approach I use to plan cross and solve F2L pairs (by using the fixed centers as a reference point) doesn't really work on 4x4, so I would personally need to completely memorise and practice my colour scheme to implement it in my 4x4 solves. I would like to switch one day though.

Andrew - This is definitely something that people do as they're transitioning to CN, and I agree that looking at the top colour is a neat little trick so that you don't have to tilt the entire cube to look at the bottom face. In the long run, you should actually try and work on not thinking about this at all in your solves though.

Gab - you'll just have to accept that you may be slower for a while, using other colours - there's no magic solution. I'd suggest checking out the first blog about Colour Neutrality (~6 months ago) for some tips to switch, if you're interested.

Sean - I've never had experience switching, either. Maybe I'll document that process if I ever try it for 4x4.

Chris - Hmm, I definitely will, but I'm working on some other videos over the coming weeks. I definitely suggest watching Antoine Cantin's LL algorithm execution videos on Youtube, he has some fantastic stuff.

Cheers, 

Feliks

Hi Feliks. It's Sam again. Huge fan by the way. Great job on the 5x5 WR Avg's. When did you start being CN? I use it at home when practicing, but not during comps.

And I will post my experiment as well.

Dear Feliks and other advanced cubers,

This has absolutely nothing to do with cross neutrality but how do you learn oll much more easily. I am a sub-30 average solver and I know full PLL.

Thankyou

Hi feliks! I am a 30 second cube solver.i have speed but how can i solve a cube more faster in begineers method.

GubeCube Y: Hello! I also average about the same (25.65) and I thought I had some good thoughts on this. So what I am doings is first I watch videos on YouTube for “OLL’s everyone should know”. Then as I watch I pause the video write down the algs. Then after collecting a few I go to the ZYXTimer app in the train section for OLL and only select the algs that I just got ( don’t do more then 10 at a time ;). Then the app will at random give me one of the algs I have selected and if I can I try to solve it without using the algs especially because the algs in the videos for that typically have good finger tricks. After I feel confident I know the OLLs I just learned I go on to look through an OLL alg sheet and find some that seem easy to learn. Then I repeat the process with all the possible inverse’s of that alg. (If you don’t have ZYX timer I would suggest just doing flash cards at random or something.)

let me know it this was helpful!

I can solve white, yellow and blue. Shall i practice the rest of the colors at once or practice green first, because i'm used to blue and green is opposite of blue which might make it easier for recognition than red and orange, or maybe that doesn't make a difference at all?

Hi Feliks, you've posted three avg100: CN, dual CN and White.
But how can CN increase the chances of a good single?

 Hey Feliks

1-Can you Make a video about more f2l algorithm for one-handed

2-Can a sub/sup 20 second do a CN solve.. 

Hi Feliks

Do you think i had to learn G-perm first or Oll

Hi Feliks,

             What subsets do you know for 3x3x3 (excluding OH)?

also how many algs do you know ?

I'm a fairly new cuber (6 months) and I have started out CN from the start after, say, just a month initially on white. I think this has made my improvement, mainly in f2l, quite slow so any new cuber may have to bear this in mind. Picking a cross colour and immediately being able to pick the edge colours really does take some getting used to and I still have to pause to remind myself what pieces I'm looking for. OLL and PLL don't cause me too many problems. OLL recognition is fairly simple because it's the opposite colour to the cross. For me PLL recognition is about "bars" "headlights" and where and where aren't stickers of opposite colours.

I will admit to getting frustrated in the past month or so as my time improvement has barely moved, mainly because of recognition during f2l (and pretty lousy cross as well!). I could probably do with a handful more pairing and insertion moves to tidy up my f2l as well but that will come from watching a few YouTube videos. Right now though I'm just doing lots of solves trying to get the piece recognition into my subconscious so I can start working on getting a bit of look ahead which will hopefully give my times a real boost.

Hey Master!

1: I think I've seen you start 6x6 center stage on every color but how do you do that without knowing the order of the colors? Comparing with edge pieces or corners seems slow so I guess you don't do that.

2: For 3x3, don't you think it would be easier to find a nice cross solution (and save time in inspection) if you instantly knew which cross piece that goes where instead of checking the E-layer? Especially when there are no obvious cross solution and you have to check the color order for every side to determine which side that looks good to start at.

I can solve the cube on all colors but I only know the color order for blue, green, white and yellow crosses. And I have a much easier time planning my cross on those colors than on red or orange. So when I have no edges solved I rarely do red or orange because then I would have to compare with the E-layer first.

As you guessed in your blog, I was really suprised to read that you haven't memorized the color order. It seems like such a small investment for a speedcuber of your caliber. For me it feels like it would require less thinking but I guess I have to trust you since your the Master and I'm barely sub-17. But it kind of blows my mind that you, so very often, make such good cross solution and can plan so far ahead during inspection without this ability.

I've been cubing for 9 years while strictly solving on red cross and using Yau on 4x4-6x6. Never saw the point to switch to CN and this vlog further confirms that. Especially with lines like "switch as soon as possible" and "the smaller the puzzle gets the more important CN gets". 

Baha - In the long run I don't think it'll make a difference, but some people do like to practice on opposite colours to gain familiarity.

Samuele - Well hypothetically, on any individual scramble, being colour neutral will give you the easiest start to a solve. This may or may not translate to an easier middle and finishing stages in a solve, but these easier starts sometimes lead to better singles.

The Twins - Check out the one-handed tutorials section, yes, and learn PLL :)

Adhithya - OLL, PLL, COLL, most of WV, most of BLE, some easy VLS + CLS, and a variety of ZBLL algorithms.

M G - As I'm doing my third center, I figure out which colour belongs above/below it in the M slice based on the blue-yellow-red clockwise colour circle. Eg, if red is on my right, and I've solved the blue center, then I know that yellow belongs above it. If green is my solved center, then white belongs above it (holding red fixed). You are correct though, maybe it would be such a small investment, but I've just learned it subconsciously over the years. I feel like if I tried to switch and memorise the colour order, and then try and solve my 3x3 cross without looking at the centers, I would make many mistakes. Also, I need to look at the E slice centers in inspection anyway, in order to plan the actual cross solution and what I need to do to align it.

Samuel - Yeah, for 4x4 to 6x6, the benefits are very very marginal, and the cost is so huge. Completely agree that switching would be a bad idea. For 3x3 it's a bit less clear cut, in my opinion :p I've heard heaps of success stories from people who've switched, but I've also heard of some people who have completely "wasted" their time. Still not sure if I believe that absolutely anyone can fully switch.

Does solving the cross on all the colors mean that you are color neutral? Because I just solve which ever cross looks the easiest, but I won't know what color is on the right face if blue is on the bottom and white is in front.

Yep, that sounds similar to me haha.

Sometimes I do colour neutral,I am always like thinking too much on that for how to do the cross, F2l, OLL and PLL.

Hey feliks, i've heard you use reduction for 5 by 5 and yet win every competition, i use reduction too and i have reached a standstill at about 3 minutes and at best 2 minutes. should i switch to Yau, or should i continue reduction to get sub-1

also are there any algs you use to improves the efficiency of reduction, like any easy edge pairing algs or centre forming algs? if yes, then could you post a tutorial 

Super interesting to hear you haven't specifically memorised all the colour orders for different starting crosses. I always am double checking the E layer, no matter how many times I seem to do a cross on that side. 

For example, i know how to solve white, yellow and blue and i wanted to make green a familiar color during f2l, is it a good idea to solve 100 solves using only green cross so i can get used to green? or practice green and the rest may benefit more?

Thank you Feliks.

Hi Feliks,

I know you said that it is impractical to memorize the color order for each cross, but if I wanted to switch to color neutral for yau on 4x4, I should memorize the color order for each cross, right?

Hey Feliks, 

I average around 18-23 Secs, My individual times are :

Cross-2-4 Secs (can memorize 3 edges)

F2l-7-10 Secs

Oll-2-4 Secs

Pll-3-5 secs

so i m not CN....i do only white cross...and can only sucessfully memorize 3edge...so wt should i practice in order to memorize all 4?

Thanks FELIKS :)

Hi Feliks so I am like sub 20 and cubing for like 10 months. I do only white cross and also on Yellow.i tried to Become CN. I can do Cross on any side but the problem is in F2L , I tried to Do Red side and It took me Like 4 seconds to Identify the F2L case which is really bad 

Hi Feliks,can u make a tutorial on BLD solving the 3x3?

Hi Feliks, which is better yau or  freeslice for 5x5?

Thanks Feliks 

"You actually might be surprised to know that I haven't memorised the colour order around the cube in any fashion for 3x3 speedsolving".

This made my day, I was desperate to do the same thing now I know it's normal ;)

Baha - practicing something to improve your ability at it is generally a good idea, if that's your goal :p

Owen - Yes, definitely! I'll add this into the main post, it's quite important.

Harsh - to help you practice doing all 4 cross edges, give yourself unlimited inspection time for a little while. Also, make sure that you're not individually solving each cross edge into its position, because that would make it really difficult to plan the entire cross. Make sure that your cross solutions are efficient enough so that you are able to plan them entirely - I know that sounds a little bit like the chicken and the egg problem, but it's doable.

Pranav - I do want to eventually get 3BLD material up on this website, but probably in the longer term. Check out J Perm's tutorial if you want to learn 3BLD.

Pranav - I think they have similar potential.

Zigmund - Haha, I think many others were surprised by this as well! :p

Feliks

Hey Felix, I dont know if this is the right place to ask this question, but I will ask it:

Do you plan making a timer on this site? Although there are already many timers online, a timer on this site could track improvement over a long time and would be a motivation. Maybe you could even add achievements and make a whole speedcubing network out of it :P Also a timer would fit this site really well :D

This is just a suggestion, didnt know where to post it else :P

Btw sorry for my bad english, have a nice day :D

Hey Ferry, 

Hmm, whilst I do agree that a timer would be really nice to have on this site, the reason it isn't a priority at the moment is probably because there are so many other timers out there, and many of those actually have the capability to track your improvement over a long period of time. Certainly something that would be cool to add in the future!

Feliks

Hi Felix I know how to solve one colour but not the whole thing

What about Lucas Etter? How is he so fast with single cross colour? (Is the answer very motivating?)

Not really that motivating, he's just really fast! That's still very possible with only one cross colour.

Hi feliks how to increase the achievement of 3 × 3

Hi feliks, would you be able to talk about your UWR 3.01 rubik's cube time? We're all really curious!

Richard, he did talk about it in a podcast with Shawn from SpeedCubeReview. You can find it when you go about 25 min in! Basically he says it was an easy solve with a pll skip.

Hey, Feliks. I was wondering if you could make a "General Comments" section, or something of the like. I feel it would be very helpful, and we would not need to post our ideas in the "Color Neutrality Part 2" section. It would also provide a way for us (everyone on the website) to communicate and put ideas out there that others might look over. This is not urgent, but it might be a good long term idea.Thanks for everything you have done for us!

Cheers!

Liam

I am a CFOP user, I average around 20s flat. I traditionally solve on White Cross (Because I have been doing so for 6 years) [6 years is an astonishingly long time for my solve time now] {I got serious about speedcubing about 3 years ago} <which is still embarrassing> and I am really wanting to be able to hit a phase where i "get" how to solve 'properly' and I'm wondering if CN is the thing to do that. I have found that it is quite difficult to change colors (after white for so long) but all CN examples seem like they improve averages and skill/knowledge. I am color neutral on 2x2 and Pyraminx, but it seems near impossible to transition that onto 3x3, due to the F2L differences among the colors, as well as cross always ends up wrong. Sometimes my times are discouraging, because i know i should be doing better, but i find a lot of difficulty. Any ideas for a larger improvement? (CN or Not)

For CN, I am not CN yet, but a big thing is to not time your CN solves, it will discourage you. I do not know when to switch to CN, because I go to competitions almost every month, so I do not have much time between them. 

Hey Liam - thanks for the suggestion! I think that something like this would be a useful addition, I just need to think about the best way to do it. At the moment, comments on blogs and videos are generally relevant to the specific content, and for other questions, I generally answer them via email. I'm not sure that I want to turn this site into something like a forum - I want to have it mainly focused on the content and tutorials. So, I do agree that this is something I want to add in the future, but I also want to maintain the simplicity of the site :)

Cole - 'getting' how to solve 'properly' is a bit ambiguous, and I don't really think that being colour neutral will have any significant impact on the way that you think about your solutions, apart from the fact that they'll be on a different colour. In a way, knowing that you can do better is probably a good thing, rather than thinking that your solves at the moment are at your maximum potential speed. I recommend checking out the practicing module as well as the original blog on colour neutrality, for more specific advice.

Cheers!

Feliks

Hey Feliks,

What was your first color that u got used to, for example was it white like most people or from the time u began cubing u were CN?

Thank you.

Hey Baha, 

I think I switched to colour neutrality on my second day of cubing :)

Feliks

Hey Feliks, do you prefer Stickerless plastic or Black plastic? Btw could you include tutorials beyond 3x3, 4x4 and 5x5? Maybe something like 6x6 and 7x7? 

Thank you.

Hi Feliks, I have a question for you: I always solve from white or yellow, but when I start to solve from other colour, like orange, I can't find F2L pieces well. So, can you tell me some advices?

Thanks for answer!

Feruz Gulomov 

I have the same problem but I guess the only real answer to solve this problem is just practice. Just solve by starting from other sides and you may get used to it. Its the same thing when we all started speedcubing. We didnt knew at all for what to search, but now we know for our "main colours".

Hey feliks, i've heard you use reduction for 5 by 5 and yet win every competition, i use reduction too and i have reached a standstill at about 3 minutes and at best 2 minutes. should i switch to Yau, or should i continue reduction to get sub-1

also are there any algs you use to improves the efficiency of reduction, like any easy edge pairing algs or centre forming algs? if yes, then could you post a tutorial 

Mahor - general consensus is that Yau and reduction probably have similar potential for speedsolving. Check out all the tips and example solves here, they should be useful - https://www.cubeskills.com/categories/5x5

I love your blogs Feliks! They are so useful.

Thanks for the kind words Sergio! :) 

I have a question. How do you memorize all those F2L algorithms?

Hey!

Do you think that having your prefered shades on your cube make a difference to your journey to becoming colour neutral?  

Hi!

Great job on the blog, always a great read! I have been cubing for a couple of years, but just recently got into learning some new algorightms in addition to OLL and PLL. Are there any alg sets you consider more useful and worth learning, both time-consuming and actual usage in a speedsolve? 

Would you also consider making more tutorials and videos for bigger cubes (555, 666, 777) in the future? 

Celine

Felix - You don't need to memorise F2L algorithms, learn it intuitively :) (Tutorials are in the F2L module)

Makrukh - Maybe slightly, if you struggle to distinguish colours.

Celine - Cheers! I recommend taking a look at winter variation and some easy VLS cases. COLL is also useful as a general skill, and for its applications in OH solving and big cubes. I have tutorials for 5x5 on the website, and I plan to do 6x6 and 7x7 ones eventually, but they are lower priority compared to other content. Solving the 6x6 and 7x7 after you know how to do the 5x5 is pretty straightforward, and Kevin has a bunch of great tips and tricks on this YouTube playlist, which I think is reasonably comprehensive.

Probably not the most related comment, but I'm still curious, what GES do you use for your SM? I know you used yellow for the UM, but the GES v2 nuts are very different from what I hear.

I still use yellow on the SM :)

Thanks Feliks for the tips and love the blog it helped me fast

Hey Feliks,

Can you make a blog upon which is your main and backup cube for all the events?

Thanks.

Hi Feliks ,

             In Your 4.75 Solve You Have mentioned That Hard-core Zeroing on the Last F2L Pair

•What Is Zeroing? 

•At What Stage Should We Use It ?

•Will You Make a Tutorial For It?

•When did You Start Using 

Zeroing ?

Feliks Please Answer My Questions 

Eating For Your Answers ;)

Feliks Zemdegs, is there anything you can tell us about your 3.01 PB? e.g. Reaction, PLL or OLL skips, zeroing :P? I've seen it on your spreadsheet for a while... but I've never heard any elaboration from you or anyone else. 

Thanks!

What spread sheet

Lets say in 3x3 we can easily figure out the right order of the cross pieces relative to one another because we have fixed centers which means we dont need to memorize the color scheme, also most cubers use one or two colors when creating the first 2 centers in 4x4 using yau, which results in memorizing one color scheme and its opposite. However in 6x6 it is recommended to use CN if using reduction method, so does that mean i have to memorize the whole color scheme of the cube?

Thank you Feliks.

Karthik - bit.ly/FAZPBS is your best bet for that info! :)

Adhitya - Zeroing is a joke :p It's not a real method.

Richard - It was at Worlds 2017, I was warming up next with Max and got a really easy solve with a PLL skip. I believe it was 36 moves in total :)

Baha - Yep, you'll need to memorise your scheme, but there are certainly ways to do this easily so that you can minimise active thinking in your solves. I do plan to make a video about how I think about my colour scheme when solving 6x6 centers.

Feliks

hey feliks, could you just tell me your n by n mains, also, recommenced which 5 by 5, 6 by 6 and 7 by 7 i should buy if my turn style in big cubes is very inaccurate and i use reduction in all there puzzles.

Also, your megaminx tutorial is incredible 

Mahor, All of his mains and PBs are on the site "Bit.ly/FAZPBS"

Liam

Are you ever going to make any 7x7 beginner-advanced tutorials? If so, when?

Simon

thank you so much for the link, liam gerard

but, feliks i also wanted to know your inputs on my second question. 

Mahor

Simon - Next year :)

Hey Feliks, as a sub-13 CN solver who knows full CFOP, I don't know what next steps I should take. I started VLS and know about 50 algorithms, however, seeing as you and many other top cubers don't use it, I don't know how much it'll help me. What should I do next to reach sub-12, and with what practices and/or techniques?

Thanks a bunch, 

Stanley

Another question, have you ever started a Cubing Club when you were in school? If so, do you have any tips on how to start one? I'm trying to, and I have just about all the necessary items, but I don't know how it'll go through the school year.

Thanks,

Stanley

Stenley, i am the head of my school cubing club. so, what i did is I had like 5-6 friends who were like average sub-40 cubers, and i was already sub-20 at that time. what we did is that we formulated an entire word document of our aims and policies and stuff of the cubing club.  Then we all 7 approached our principal. She said she will have to take legal permission form the management. Then, in 2 weeks or so, our official cubing club started and we host competitions, group solving sessions and studff now.

hello feliks, well what I want to know if you can put subtitles in Spanish to your videos if it is within your possibilities, it would be very helpful for those who speaks hispanic

do color neurality will reduce the time more when using yau on 5x5 compare to reduction?

hi feliks, can you post a video on how to inprove look ahead? I am sub 20 and I find myself not being able to complete cross during inspection most of the time and I end up pausing a lot while I am doing F2L.

I think CN not effect only cross it also affect the further solve because sometime i find a 2x2x1 block of any other color than white. that may be useful if i am color neutral. express your views about this and please tell me how i start practicing for color neutrality. Some people say switch to a diff. color than white and then move to another color till you get comfortable with previous one. is this the correct way ...

please answer   

Hey Feliks are you going to Sydney Champs 2017?

Is it true that you, Feliks The Great, practiced slow turning so much that you eventually mastered reducing pauses and LookAhead?

As theorized in Skewby Doo's Youtube video: "What Makes Feliks So Fast?"

It's true man, for everyone. No cuber should turn at their max tps unless they know what the next "thing" is. for ex: PLL or u know that this PLL occurs after this OLL, then spam tps

Raman don't care about anything else. Just look at the scrambled cube and think which cross looks easy. Execute that cross until you're confident about it(u can do it even blindfolded) then track an edge/corner after that, again slowly. Time yourself between each major phase

Would you recommend learning OLL of Winter Variation?

How to be Sub 15??

Hey again! I'm doing a school project and for my own experiment, I need to find the shortest possible algorithms for all the OLL and PLL cases. However, these algorithms don't have to be the most efficient. Do you recommend any websites where I can find a ton of algorithms other than cubeskills and cyotheking's website? 

Thanks!

Hey Feliks

i average 18.1 with my weilong gts2 while only using white cross, i don't think that i am going to be full colour neutral, but i also want to do crosses on yellow. Feliks do you think that i should switch between white and yellow if one color has a bad cross case?

Thank you, Mano Segransan!

nathan yes

Nice

Hey there! 

I have been cubing for about 4 years now and my average is around 14 seconds with solves on the white cross. I allways wondered if its a good idea to start learning CN as it will take quite some time to actually become familiar with the different f2l collors. I obviously tried to do some CN solves but I got extremely confoused with f2l each time. So I stopped practicing as it was to hard. Would you say its allready too late for CN? Does anyone know how long it might take to become CN?

Thanks for advice :D

Leo S it is never too late to become CN it just the amount of commitment that it takes the shorter amount of time it takes the solve the cube

Hey Feliks,

I have been cubing for almost 2 years, and I am currently fully CN on small cubes (3x3-5x5), except for 4x4, where I use White & Yellow Cross (PB avg. ~54 secs). I have recently considered switching to full CN on the 4x4, so I decided to solve with blue & green cross (in addition to white & yellow) for a while, and add the remaining red & orange later on. Within about 15 solves with blue & green I was already averaging near my PB, so I was pretty confident about switching by then. However, after a few more solves, I noticed that building the cross edges and centers in order has been quite challenging, and my times have been fluctuating sometimes by 10 seconds or more. Since you are CN on the 6x6 (which means you'd know how to build the centers in the correct order), I was wondering if you have any tips for this?

Btw it was nice meeting you at WCCT Cupertino :)

In one of your (relatively) older videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBtzz_5JlS8), I remember seeing you do a really cool LSLL alg: R' D' R U' R' D R U' R' D' R U' R' D R U'. I had to slow the video down because I couldn't find the algorithm online. Where did you find/learn LSLL algs like this one, and what are your thoughts about learning these algs and using them in your solves (since they only pop up once in a while)?

I'm color neutral on all cubes and my recommendation is to solve the cross relative to the position of where everything else would be if you were solving on White or yellow. What I mean by this is that when solving say the red Cross I recommend you solve a white red Cross edge first and put it on the bottom from there you can sort of think of the cross as if you were solving the centers for white and place the cross edges in their proper place in this case green would go in the front and blue would go in the back for white it is the complete opposite so you can reverse it in your head and put green in the back and blue in the front eventually things will become easier and you will be able to do this subconsciously.

I can only do white or yellow no matter how much I practice.

I became color-neutral today.

I am being 100% honest in saying that I became color neutral in one day.

I was practicing slow solves to improve lookahead and I decided to try doing solves on every color.

After only about 10 or 15 solves I was solving all sides fluently and about without making mistakes.

I'm not averaging the exact same speed using all color neutral but I can fluently solve the cube on every color now. I have no idea how this happened and I am not saying that it will work for other people but that is what happened. 

I hope I will be able to solve color-neutral tomorrow too

I consider this to be a cubing miracle

nice

u became color neutral really fast 

yeah, i am not normally color nuetral then i decided to try it and boom, then i was