What Are The Limits?

Just for fun, I'll add my predictions.

2x2: We've probably already hit the limit for single if we're being honest, unless Moyu or Gan or Qiyi releases something revolutionary that Lucas or Feliks buys, then goes to a competition on the exact day that a computer algorithm will beat the odds 1 gazillion:1, and beat 0.49 with a 4 move R U R' U'. 

3x3: I hope sub 4 will be broken at some point, and after then 3x3 single will be as important, meaningful, and totally not scramble based, as 2x2.

4x4: Sub 20 in the near future, by Feliks or Max Park

5x5: Sub 40

FELIKS! Will you do a tutorial on how you handscramble? Like how you scrambled your Gans 356 Air when you first got it?

And in five years these predication will be laughed at. 

improvement is definitely slowing down but for the less popular events they have more room to improve. Clock and feet may still have room for improve those some people are getting really fast. 

Hey Feliks can you make a complete oll sheet

 Hey Feliks. What do you predict the world record will be (If someone else beats it ) in 2018.

Feliks! te conoceré en Perú!

Hi Feliks, well do you've some old videos of yours showing you solve the cube with sub 50-sub 45 averages??

Well if feliks could get 3.81 in competition...

meh

I use CFOP (avg 16-17). I recently looked into roux and zz, because i never did before. I think it's hard to decide if one of those methods is actually better for me. I guess I'll just have to try them out... Also it's so weird that CFOP is just so evolved compared to other methods. Does that make CFOP faster? Maybe you could do a post about other methods and your experience with them..?

Well that's it. Cya Feliks :)

I think that Feliks or Max would dominate 3x3

hey feliks, do you think eventually everyones SD cards will run out and the WCA will fall into chaos and anarchy due to the lack of evidence of records?

sorry serious question now, so with 4x4 how people began using yau to achieve faster solves than redux 4x4 solves, do you think that that'll eventually happen similarly with 5x5? where you among other top cubers will eventually swap to yau and redux will seem inferior? I'm probably going on a big tangent with this as yau5 is like very different to yau on 4x4, but I was just wondering : )

 Do you think is it possible to find a better method than CFOP?

Interesting article!

What do you think about the limits for the 2x2 average and single?  

And what are your PB's at home for all the events 2-7?

 Hi Feliks! Just wanted to ask, is it possible to get sub 30 ao 5 on megaminx? 

P.S. I think that YOU will be the first speedcuber, which will do sub 6 ao 5 on 3x3 in WCA. 

Hi community and hi Feliks!

Very nice article and interesting thougts!

In my opinion there arent any marks or maximal times to reach.

I know, it sounds unrealistic, but I think, in distant future the 3x3 record will be sub 2 seconds, maybe 1.

The cubing hardware ist still frequently improving and there are many upcoming functions which can improve the times.

One example of this is the magnetic function of the gan 356 air ultimate magnetic.

Further more, the speedcubers are becoming better and better by improving the methods frequently.

One day there will be a "master-method", which will be used by every top cuber and will enable cubers to reach move counts round about 30.

The only problem of speedcubing is, that professionel speedcubers cant put so much effort in cubing like professionell guys from other sports can,

because a speedcuber will never earn enough money with cubing.

Even though I think that sub 2 seconds solves will be possible in distant future.

Faithfully, Cedric

As far as hardware limits go, I think a lot can be done for 6x6. Currently I can name a possible problem with every 6x6 out there, including the "big three". Spring swapped YuXin barely corner cuts, WeiShi is big and quite slow (Spring swapped WeiShi is awesome, I used KungFu 4x4 springs in mine), WuHua feels a bit tight and I can get pops on it. I have some ideas and have seen some 7x7 mechanisms that have yet to be used on 6x6, and are definitely possible to convert to even-layered cube. In comparison, the 5x5s, 7x7s and 8x8s are quite ahead of the 6x6s. (There are only 2 8x8s really, but ShengShou 8 was well received in its time, better than the ShengShou 6, and YuXin 8 has been said to be the "Best of the HuangLongs")

I also think there are some areas that should be tried in 4x4, like making 61mm or 59mm cubes. Maybe more people may find the exact size they need.

I know hardware better than I know methods, so hardware side is the most I can predict.

I have noticed that world records generally have half cross +F2L and half OLL+PLL so if someone could get a sub-2 cross+F2L in a solve and a sub3 regularly then if they learn 1LLL then it is definitely possible for sub 5 averages however it requires near-instant recognition out of 3668 cases which would not be easy but possible. you can sub-1 any alg I assume feliks so if you can sub-1 every 1LLL algorithim then it would mean very fast solves.

so my predictions for 2025:

3x3x3:  3.99/5.32

4x4x4: 16.47/21.24

5x5x5: 36.89/41.72

7x7x7: 1:55.78/2:15.05

pyraminx: 0.99/1.78

skewb: 0.99/1.78

Maybe we would need more mathematical research into the different cubes.

Any mathematician friends out there??

There are some universities which indeed do this. Maybe we can perform simulations on a computer, to find an estimate of limits of speed cubing.

To check all the staggering number of permutations, we would definitely need a supercomputer. But it takes even a supercomputer quite some time to check all the cases for the 3*3, forget the larger cubes.

A Quantum Computer can solve this problem.

Any scientists into Quantum Computing out there?

My Idea:

We need data about different types of hands, fingers, their shapes and sizes.

Then we need data about the thinking capabilities about different types of brain structures.

We need complete data about the areas of brain which are into pattern recognition and processing of information.

We then need a nice info of the various cubes, which is the only thing (I think) we completely have.

We then need data about how our fingers exactly behave when they turn the cube.

We need more data about parameters I didn't mention here. My cuber friends, give us more parameters.

Of course, these factors are going to be unique for all the people.

We can then incorporate all these parameters into a nice, decent and efficient computer program. Then we can run the simulations.

Nothing can beat a Quantum Computer, but as we don't have that, we can think about cooperation.

We can combine all of our computers' power to run the simulations. That is, each person participating in the programme​ runs a given number of simulations.

This, if undertaken, would be a massive project.

We would need mathematicians, biologists, neurologists, computer scientists, expert programmers, expert cubers, ..., and participation of a lot of common people. We would even need funding for the project.

We can then even look out to different methods of speedsolving. 

I'm sure there are cubers in almost all the mentioned professions.

If undertaken, I would be one of the first to participate.

Come on, who's going to join me? Voice your opinion.

I would like to add something.

Many cubers like to just watch how the pieces move, and they experiment different things.

Many are into (unofficial) research into cubes.

We need a unique and universal platform to publish the discoveries. It's different from cubing communities, in a sense that it focuses on the discoveries in different methods of speedsolving.

Of course, we can have multiple local platforms as well, which would organise their work with a main authority.

As WCA has been the official authority for regulation of competitions, we can have a unique authority into this matter.

My cuber friends, I hope that we do start such a platform, so that even the smallest discoveries can be studied by the experienced cubers.

It's like scientific research. One person discovers something, other builds upon it. History has been a witness that some of the biggest and most important principles of science were built on some basic ideas discovered by less-known people.

Any researchers out there? Can you help us with the correct approach of publishing a discovery?

Feliks (Sir), since you're one of the top cubers, whatever you do has a great influence. You might be having acquaintances around the world that might make this thing possible.

Now, not only Feliks, we all have the responsibility of building upon the existing ideas, and develop new ones.

Which 4×4 cube is better Qiyi Qiyuan, MoFang JaioShi MF4, Qiyi Wind Cloud, YJ yusu, KungFu CangFeng, KungFu JoQue? Can any one help me?

I think sub 3 is possible.Just kidding

I'm pretty sure sub 6 or even sub5 averages are definitely possible in the distant future. I think that sometime later, speed cubers will do an easier way to do last layer, like using 1LLL, but changing the orientation and the permutation of the last layer by doing f2l in a certain way so that you get to know a reasonable amount of the cases instead of nearly 4000 of them. Maybe a hundred years from now, Speedcubers would make a method that's 30 moves or less. Anything could happen.

p.s. You forgot 2x2

the ultimate method that will be created in the future will be called God's Method.

SHUBHAM KUMAR easy its the Qiyi Wuque

Charlie - one thing I would like to do after this WC is to practice Yau on 5x5 a lot more and see how I go. I think the method has similar, if not more potential than standard reduction.

David - CFOP is just the starting point, there are many many enhancements to the basic method. Roux can certainly rival it in terms of speed, but I'm not sure we'll see something completely different which is much better than either of those methods.

Feruz - Not sure, ask Juan Pablo! I think yes, but it's probably on the edge.

Samuel - I certainly agree, my 6x6 is very tight and I think better hardware could easily drop my times some more. 

Daniel - cheers for the predictions! The nxn ones look quite good, perhaps the 7x7 average is a bit conservative though :)

Purva - I think this sort of thing naturally occurs within the speedcubing community, it's hard to see some sort of official research group being formed :p

Shubham - I've heard good things about the Qiyi and the KungFu

Tien - Interesting prediction! That sort of thing would require a ton of dedication, are you up for it? :p

Feliks, can YOU shoot a video on a subject: 'How to use ispection time' ? 

I have a few things to add.

I have been about neck-deep in method development for about a year now, and here are my thoughts on the limits for certain methods:  

ZZ: I think that this has a little less potential that CFOP for two hands. However, I think this method is especially suited for one-handed solving due to the 3-gen nature, rotationlessness, and relative efficiency. I feel if enough people switch to this method, OH world records will begin to be set with it.  There are some variants of ZZ that are emerging that give you some incredible advantages, such as 1LLL's under 200 algs, and other stuff.  In my opinion the 4 fastest variants are in order ZZ-b, ZZ-VH(COLL-EPLL), ZZ-WV(tied with ZZ-VH), and ZZ-CT. ZZ-a is not on here because there are too many algorithms and the fastest ZZ-a solver is much slower than the fastest ZZ-b solver(Tao yu)

CFOP: This may be controversial, but I think CFOP with only one color has less potential than Roux.  However, with either bicolor or full Color neutrality I think it will achieve WR singles far into the future.  CFOP has a higher standard deviation than Roux, so fast singles are more likely.  LL algs seem like a good Idea in theory, but remember that the WR single and average were both with OLL-PLL. Also it will be the method of choice for big cubers for a while back 

Roux: In my opinion, a perfect world where 50% of the people in the world used Roux and 50% used CFOP, WR single would be with CFOP and WR average with Roux. This is due to some similar trends I have observed as well as my own experience.  Roux generally has a much higher consistency than CFOP, which is shown in this example: Kian and Feliks have similar averages, however Kian can count the amout of 4's on both his fingers when Feliks gets them very often.   People Like Alexander Lau, Kian Mansour, and Kavin tangtartharakul have shown that 

so in short, in my opinion the decision between Roux, CFOP, and ZZ should be up to personal preference, as they really don't limit your times all that much.

Feliks iam new to this website.I have a question that is the cube you use really matter? please help me

Iam not good at cubing  but I can solve it in 30 to 40 seconds,how can I increase my speed?

TIEN TRAN 

Tien Tran 

There will be a sub 4  because in reality humans can be fast about it. Like this guy in my bus . You should watch his youtube channel; Tien Cubes

Can a bunch of different methods combine to make one ultimate method?

Also, can you reach 13.4 or 12.35 TPS on any SpeedCube?

On the efficiency side of the board, I have an idea that might pay out well, but will definitely take a lot of time and effort. My idea is to have a learning program (I don't remember the actual term for it) analyze a billion or so optimal solves from random WCA scrambles, and then have it perform further training via virtual cubes. Then someone could analyze these solves and try to recreate this kind of 'mindset' that the program has adopted and base their solves on that. I don't think it would create an entire method, but it could shine some light on alternate routes for solving.

Hey,Feliks are you good in maths?

That's pretty michy

I think Feliks once made a Sub4 ina video

Do you think there will ever be a sub-1 average in 2x2?

Hi Feliks, do you think a sub-30 in megaminx is possible?

Lucas Etter has a sub 1 ao5 on 2x2 At home

Hey Feliks, do think sub 1(hour)17x17 is possible????

6666

l agree with you 戴卓

1. Probably only Feliks himself could get sub 1 hour on a 17x17 Diptoneel De

Hey Feliks do you think a sub 28 in megaminx possible  , And what are your predictions on 2×2 WR , it is tough to break as it is in milliseconds 0.49 

Hey Feliks do you got to any comps in the USA and if you do where?

'I also predict that the world record average will be sub-6 by the end of 2018." Or the middle of 2017.

feliks do you think you can still beat the current 3x3 WR

Feliks.  DO you think sub 4 3x3 will happen by 2020?

Sub-6 3x3 avg by the end of 2018? More like June 2017! :D

When do you think cubing will die out completely?

"WR average will be sub 6 by the end of 2018"

Gets sub 6 average during LA cubing tour

What a sad news is that Patrick Ponce has beaten your WR!

Greetings from HK!

A sub 40 single is possible (perhaps imminent!)

Gets sub 40 single at Championships

"Sub-6 by the end of 2018."

*gets 2 sub-6 averages*

You predicted a lot of your own records here:

"WR average will be sub 6 by the end of 2018" - Yes, you in June 2017

"5x5: A sub 40 single is possible (perhaps imminent!)" - Yes, you in July 2017

"... as well as averages below 45 seconds." - Almost there, 45.64 in October 2017

"7x7: Someone will get an unofficial sub 2 single in the next 12 months or so" - Yes, you in July 2017

^Heh, and this was only posted 5 months ago! :p

1.)  Feliks should I learn X cross if i average 18 seconds

2.) I have a very rough turning style, do u think that a magnetic cube will fix this problem?

3.) Should I focus on only a few events or only focus on 2-3 events that I want to get serious about?

Feliks i hope that you can beat SeungBeom Cho's world record!

Hey Nathan, 

1. It won't hurt, but remember to get the basics really solid first (cross, F2L pairing, etc.)

2. Perhaps, but it's better to get your turning style smoother on a non-magnetic cube first :)

3. It's up to you! Focusing on specific events will of course help with greater improvement for those specific events.

Please Feliks break Seung been cho WR. U are best and u should get it

Can you tell gan to sponsor me?

Nice post Feliks!

Do you think you'll ever stop cubing(or rather, speedcubing) and/or going to competitions?

Tanish - Never, hopefully! Definitely with less frequency, though.

feliks how can i get past my wall 23 secs

cross:10

f2l:10

oll:2

pll:1

Hey, have you throught about changing the method?

10 seconds for cross?!

yeah it is really slow

I really need help I will be going to a completion with Patrick ponce in a few months

I want to beat him

Dude.

hey, I somebody help. i want to become faster and i cant beat sub 7

cross:0.7

f2l:4

LL:2

this is pretty interesting Feliks

I totally agree. BtW Feliks, what would you recommend I do to go from an average of 22 seconds to a sub 20 average?

Nevermind I have a 19 second average now. All I needed to do was learn some pll and oll and improve my look-ahead.